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In my usual morning blog and email reading I came across a theme this morning. Several blogs I read contained posts about vegetarian eating and why it is healthier for body and planet. Mike Adams at News Target sent out emails about two of his new articles on why eating factory farmed meat is cruel and why animal activists and vegetarians are bashing Al Gore because he apparently supports a meat eating diet. I also received an email about a local vegan restaurant that just opened up.
The tone of some of the things I read bothered me a little. Why? Is it because I eat meat? No not really. I think my vegetarian friends are pretty great and since I used to be a vegetarian I can’t say that I don’t agree with some or most of the reasons why they have forsaken meat. I think it is because there is no balance within their arguments and it does not allow for the meat eaters in society to escape unscathed it they…like me…do their best to eat animal products ethically….organic, humanely raised, vegetarian fed, not antibiotic or chemical infused, etc. For example, a patron of the vegan restaurant I mentioned above said that she would enjoy eating in this new establishment because she would not have to dine with killers anymore. I can’t believe anyone would actually think that type of attitude would help their cause. If anything it made me rethink my decision to eat there next week.
This isn’t a black and white issue for me, for several reasons. If it revolved purely around environmental issues that “might” spur me to go vegan myself but there are also health issues involved and I just don’t think a diet without any animal products would be the healthiest thing for my family. Humans are omnivores…we are predisposed to eat animal products. I ate vegetarian for several years and my health suffered. I was weak, I had dark circles under my eyes, I was pasty colored, my fingernails were brittle, and my hair was like straw. I developed an immune disorder too. In fact, I found my appearance to be similar to one of the vegan celebrity spokes models I see touting the health benefits of vegan eating. She looks hot in a bikini I will give her that but overall she looks pasty and sick to me….no thanks.
I also had many doubts about the amount of soy that is typical of a vegan diet…soy milk, soy cheese, soy ice cream, tofu….that much soy is not good for you in my opinion and one Doctor that I greatly respect feels that it is just downright dangerous to be consuming so much soy. I read a book not long ago called Full Moon Feast which discusses the human diet and eating with the seasons and it had some interesting information about the fact that no healthy vegetarian groups have ever been found. Here is a little quote:
As far as I know, there is no evidence of a thriving, vegan culture that has been able to provide adequate nutrition to its people generation after generation. Every group Price studied not only valued animal products for their nutrient density, but also made special arrangements to ensure that all members of the community had at least periodic access to them that would not be interrupted by war or weather.
But that being said I do happen to agree with many of my meatless friends about how devastating consuming animal products can be to the environment and how cruel it can be as well. One of my college reports was on the impacts of meat packing companies and I made a lot of references to Upton Sinclair’s book The Jungle. If you haven’t read this book you really should. It gives you a shocking look into the meat packing industry and it was this book that motivated me to eat vegetarian for several years. The cruelty and atrocity of this industry was horrifying. Many things have changed since this book was written…such as the fact that I am pretty sure we know longer have to worry that if a human being falls into the lard vat and dies…that batch will be thrown out and not used anyway…human byproducts and all.
But factory farming is still a very cruel and disgusting operation and it is very bad for the planet. As Mike Adams points out, animals in factory farms are treated as machines or a production unit. They are given absurd things to eat such as plastic pellets, manure, grains that their stomachs are not meant to digest, and animal products (meat, hair, hooves, internal organs, etc.) from their own species and other animal species. They are often unhealthy and even sick from this diet and the horrendous living conditions thrust upon them so they also get regular injections of antibiotics and hormones. We in turn might be eating the flesh or milk of this unhealthy, sickly animal. Pretty scary.
Factory farms are also VERY bad for the environment with their sewage ponds that seep into groundwater. This sewage can’t be used for fertilization of nearby crops because the chemicals in it (injected into the animals) make it toxic.
So when you consider these factors it is understandable why so many decide to avoid meat. But it doesn’t HAVE to be that way. I decided to strike a balance. I would eat animal products as ethically as I could and reduce my overall consumption without giving them up entirely. My family is dedicated to eating several meatless meals a week and when we do eat meat we try to make sure it is organic, vegetarian fed, free range, humanely raised, and antibiotic and hormone free. This is one large reason that we are not big on eating out because there are few places that have meat meals that meet this criterion. But times are changing in that respect. This week my family ate out twice….once at Chipotle and once at Panera Bread and we were quite pleased by both.
Both establishments serve up vegetarian fed, free range, humanely raised, and antibiotic and hormone free chicken (both Chipotle and Panera) and pork (Chipotle). And Panera Bread has many organic selections. For instance my kids all got organic PB & J sandwiches, organic milk, and organic yogurt. The organic milk and yogurt are from Horizon…which is not a choice I would make in my own home because it is a factory farm operation….but it is a BIG improvement in our fast and unhealthy food society. It is also a step in the right direction for the environment as well. AND the food at Chipotle rocks! My favorite is the chicken burrito with seasoned chickened, rice and cilantro, black beans, Pico de Gallo, and rBGH free sour cream wrapped in a tortilla.
I would encourage vegans and vegetarians…especially the militant ones…to read The Omnivore’s Dilemma and see how there are MANY conscious meat eaters who are making the most ethical and environmentally friendly choices they can and give them some props. Many people will not give up their meat eating ways and to keep touting vegetarianism as the solution for environmental crisis and ignore this fact is not helping. As a society we need to make the move to small scale, local, organic, and sustainable food production. After we make an impact in that arena then we can look at how we can further reduce the impact of our meat consumption…realizing though that omnivore’s will eat meat if they so choose. Just as we shouldn’t expect cows to eat grain that is not meant for them…neither should we expect that all omnivores will forgo their meat consumption. Some will…as we are creatures of choice….but many will not…nor should they have to. The message in The Omnivore’s Dilemma was not to stop eating meat but to change the way we eat meat.
Which brings me to the next thing that really irritates me….the article on News target about how PETA is bashing Al Gore for not going vegetarian. They are miffed about the fact that An Inconvenient Truth does not mention the contribution of meat consumption in global warming. I agree with them that this does warrant a mention. But then PETA goes way overboard and demands that Al Gore adopt a vegetarian diet to set a good example.
“The best and easiest way for Mr. Gore to show his critics that he’s truly committed to fighting global warming is to kick his meat habit immediately,” said PETA President Ingrid E. Newkirk.
He has not decided to give up meat and so they are going to be holding demonstrations at his global warming lectures, holding signs that say “Too chicken to go vegetarian? Meat is the No. 1 cause of global warming.”
This is what really irritates me folks. What right do they have to demand that ANYONE stop eating meat?? I am all for fighting global warming but I choose to reduce meat consumption and eat meat in a more ethical manner…not to eliminate it altogether. This practice coupled with other reductions in my CO2 footprint does effectively show that I care about global warming but according to PETA this would just make me a chicken. Shame on PETA!
Apparently October is Vegetarian Awareness Month. I am all for awareness about making wise eating choices. I just hope that more veggie lovers will start to see that carnivores are part of the solution too and we need to take their needs into account and make the world sustainable for all and that means making meat options better not eliminating them.
Edited to add: I just ran across an new study done in New York that shows that if New Yorkers eat small amounts of meat and dairy they are better managing their land and are able to feed more people then if they only used land for vegetarian crops. This study shows that in this instance…a vegetarian diet is not better for the planet.
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lorien said,
October 9, 2007 at 10:43 am:
Well, and Michael Pollan makes a great point when he says that because cows are fed corn (which is where a lot of the demand for corn, the destructive monoculture comes from) they produce greenhouse gases. Corn is not their natural diet and so their bodies can’t handle it and alters (to the detriment) the nutrition value of their meat and milk. So these vegetarians would be much better served fighting to get cows some nice grass to live on and eat. It kind of bums me out that people are so blinded by dogma. I think I need to reread The Omnivore’s Dilemma once a month!
Tracy said,
October 9, 2007 at 10:57 am:
Whether a cow is fed corn or grass, it is still killed. Humane slaughter is an oxymoron. I also want to point out that vegan and vegetarian are not the same thing. Perhaps you should work with a vegetarian (or vegan) nutritionist to create a healthy vegetarian diet for you. Please check out the podcasts at CompassionateCooks.com. Colleen, the host, comes off very down-to-earth and respectful of all people. And she has great information to share. (I’m not in any way affiliated with that — just a fan.) I wish you the best of luck.
Tracy
Tiffany said,
October 9, 2007 at 11:26 am:
Jorien, I agree about the corn. That book really opened my eyes to how much damage the corn industry has done to the environment and our health!
Thanks Tracy for the link. I will check them out and try to ignore the insinuation that anyone NOT cooking vegetarian or vegan is not “compassionate”.
lorien said,
October 9, 2007 at 12:37 pm:
Having grown up and worked as an adult on a farm, I can respectfully disagree that humane slaughter does not have to be an oxymoron. Intent is very powerful and I believe that animals raised with love and compassion can be slaughtered with the same. I was raised vegetarian and was a vegan for several years (my boyfriend at the time I was vegan had his undergraduate degree in nutrition and was also vegan, so I believe I was eating properly). It was not right for my body.
Jackie said,
October 9, 2007 at 12:44 pm:
Great post! I am not a vegetarian but my family only buys humanely raised pastured meats, and while I don’t ask my husband to, I avoid eating meat in restaurants for the same reasons you do.
And I disagree about humane slaughter. Could you imagine living in a society where all animals were free to roam as they liked? Where cows weren’t milked, though they were bursting because it’s inhumane? How would the cows survive in our concrete world without people to take care of them? Without human consumption of eggs where would we go when the chickens crowded the streets with their feces?
Carrie said,
October 9, 2007 at 1:27 pm:
Definitely agree with everything here Tiffany. Unfortunately, it’s very difficult for humans to be balanced. Everyone is an “-ist”, “-ian” or some other label, and they all want to throw dirt on the other, opposing group.
PETA isn’t exactly known for being rational anyway! And like you, I won’t be convinced of the health magic of vegatarianism until the cashiers at the large health food coop I shop at sometimes look like they aren’t strung out heroin addicts. LOL!
Carrie said,
October 9, 2007 at 1:28 pm:
oops, vegetarianism. sorry for my typo, nursing at keyboard.
I also gave veg a decent shot, twice for about a year. I also came down with an immune disorder and was weak and tired all the time.
Brooke said,
October 9, 2007 at 1:53 pm:
I really disagree with this. I know the vegetarian lifestyle isn’t for everyone, currently myself included. But I can’t agree that vegans and vegetarians can’t be healthy or that any group of people have never lived as vegetarians and succeeded. Many, actually most culture don’t have alot of meat in their diets. Most instead depend on beans and dairy for their protein and only occasionally eat meat during times when good food sources are not avaliable or when celebrations occur. That contrasts what we see in america today, where people are eating meat at every meal and it’s the main staple of the american diet. We are not healthy and our obesity rate shows that. Also animal fat blocks the absorption of calcium and are known to cause cancer. Even organicly fed animals have higher rates of toxins their bodies and fat tissue then a plant does. It takes 16 pounds of grain to get one pound of beef. In a planet with starving populations, can we ethically be meat eaters?
I also agree with the idea that you can’t humanely kill an animal. Killing in of itself is inhumane. I understand people feel the “need” to eat meat and I understand the idea that we are after all omnivores. However, I ask anyone who is truly committed to eating meat, what would happen if there was no more factory farming? What would occur if you had to shoot down your meat, skin it and process it yourself? Would you be able to do that?
Tiffany said,
October 9, 2007 at 3:02 pm:
Brooke, I do not disagree with most of your points..which is why I have greatly reduced the amount of meat I eat. We are farming too much simply to feed the food that will eventually become our food…it is a silly cycle. BUT patronizing small, family farms that are sustainable is a viable answer…and no there won’t be meat on the table EVERY night and I can live with that. I find it funny that so many harp on meat while they say little about the non-organic veggies, fruits, and grains they consume that are non-organic and pesticide laden and end up having very little if any nutrient density.
The current health issue we face as a society has as much to do with junk foods as it does meat. I know several vegetarians that will not touch meat but they will eat sugar filled pastries with abandon.
If I had to secure my own meat I would probably eat ALOT more fish and I could catch it and prepare it. I suppose I would also hunt for other game as well…it is just a matter of know-how for me. I am a farm girl by birth so I have no issues with the hunt.
Anna said,
October 9, 2007 at 3:13 pm:
I’ve enjoyed reading the discussion and input from all sides of the debate.
As a newbie to the vegetarian vs. meat-eater debate, I’d love to know simple facts about how much a single serving of meat is hurting our planet? Does anyone know?
Tiffany said,
October 9, 2007 at 3:31 pm:
Hi Anna,
As Brooke stated It takes 16 pounds of grain to get one pound of beef. I have not fact checked this but I am guessing it is accurate. We are farming MANY acres just to feed livestock. Too much in my opinion. Forests are being cleared to make room for grazing. So our appetite for meat is getting out of hand….this I do not deny. We need to come up with a compromise.
Jamie said,
October 9, 2007 at 5:54 pm:
I am a vegan, and quite healthy! I have to say that I don’t agree with PETA on much of anything, and I think that they are shooting themselves in the foot most of the time.
To respond to the idea that cows need us to milk them–cows make so much milk because they are constantly kept pregnant. If it weren’t for human intervention, cows would have milk after pregnancy when calves need to nurse and would “dry up” when the calves grew up. It’s like saying that we need to milk mothers to keep them from bursting; in nature it’s a moot (moo) point. Think of the centuries that cows were alive before any kind of organized farming. They were fine then. Same thing goes for chicken overpopulation. They did not fill the streets before factory farming. People don’t kill and eat skunks (at least, not in polite society :)), but we are not up to our noses in skunks. The population is kept in check because of the delicate balance of food supply, climate, natural predators, etc.
The idea that animals *need* us to kill them, milk them, or take their eggs is unfounded.
Jackie said,
October 9, 2007 at 6:15 pm:
Jamie, I should have specified that I was referring to the current animal population, including those in factory farms. If we were to free all of the cows and chickens, as some very misinformed activists would like, it would be a nightmare.
And if I had to kill, skin and process my own meat I’d probably eat about as much as I do now. One cow lasts a very long time. As it is, my friends joke that I won’t eat meat unless I’ve pet the animal before its demise. I like to know where it comes from which is why I only eat and purchase meat from pastured animals from local farms.
moo point! I like that!
CindyW said,
October 9, 2007 at 7:15 pm:
Tiffany, you pretty much took all the words out of my mouth
I have gone back and forth between vegetarian and light meat consumption. While I completely understand the horrifying industry of raising animals as meat, I also think humans have evolved to be omnivorous. I think as a nation, we eat way too much meat (again this is my personal opinion). Reducing meat consumption as a general trend will be great in every way. So what should one do? Like Tiffany, I have adopted eating a small quantity of meat responsibly. That means I pay very high price to buy meat raised locally, by small farmers. The fact that I pay very high price for the meat leads to consuming not much of it. And I don’t waste any of it. Is that good enough? I don’t know. But eating bananas does bad things too - hundreds and thousands of acres of rain forest have been cleared to grow bananas. The way most soy beans are grown these days harms environment in a big way. So am I to preach to a soy and banana eating vegetarian? Of course not. Vegetarians do not possess any moral superiority over responsible meat eaters and vice versa. Fortunately most vegetarians I know are not so quick to judge. The most important point I take from the debate is that we are all trying to make conscientious choices. That is a thousand times better than living and consuming without any independent thinking.
Tiffany said,
October 9, 2007 at 7:24 pm:
Very well said Cindy…and excellent point about the bananas and soy beans.
Mama Luxe said,
October 9, 2007 at 7:35 pm:
I am a vegetarian and I cook meat for my family and friends.
I went vegetarian almost two decades ago because I just don’t like eating meat. However, I do know that many animals eat other animals.
Meat can be beneficial when consumed in moderation (though I do get concerned sometimes about how the animals are raised–both for their quality of life and for our health). I think most people in the West would be better off if they ate LESS meat…but I don’t think they have to stop consuming meat altogether just because I did.
Brooke said,
October 9, 2007 at 8:18 pm:
I agree that vegetarians should also be concerned about their produce being non-organic and the environmental problems that causes. Actually most of the people I know who are vegan or vegetarian are also concerned about these issues. One of the good things about not eating meat for them, has actually been that they can afford organically grown local produce. However, I think most people don’t see non-organic food as being unethical on the same levels as eating meat. Many people who are passionate vegans really believe meat is murder. For them not eating meat is not only a health and environmental issue but a moral issue as well, however they may not see the connection between farming in a non-organic way and that hurting animals as well as humans. Many people simply forget that pesticides kill birds and bees and pollute are rivers and streams. Small family farms may produce meat in a more ethical way, but it’s still meat so for vegans and vegetarians who truly believe that meat is bad for our health, bad for the environment and unethical, that doesn’t make a difference to them. Cutting back on meat is great for any family. But I also don’t think every family can afford organic meat, so for those families being vegetarian may be a good option.
Tiffany said,
October 9, 2007 at 10:20 pm:
Just ran across a new study that shows vegetarian is not better for New York:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Oct07/diets.ag.footprint.sl.html
Healthy Diet » Vegetarians Please Stop Trying To Convert Me… said,
October 15, 2007 at 11:57 am:
[...] Tiffany wrote an interesting post today on Vegetarians Please Stop Trying To Convert Meâ¦Here’s a quick excerptI read a book not long ago called Full Moon Feast which discusses the human diet and eating with the seasons and it had some interesting information about the fact that no healthy vegetarian groups have ever been found. … [...]
diet » Vegetarians Please Stop Trying To Convert Me… said,
October 15, 2007 at 7:41 pm:
[...] Read the rest of this great post here [...]
Angela said,
October 17, 2007 at 2:49 pm:
Could general society please stop taking PETA as the authoritative voice on veg*nism & animal rights? The numbers of veg*ns who detest PETA, & the diversity in philosophy among veg*ns in general, are great.
Also, just wanted to echo the comment about how “happy meat” still results in killing an animal for your own purposes. Not compassionate!
Not to mention, w/things like “cage free” eggs, there is often not much of a difference in how the chickens are treated @ all, from the factory farming that “cage free” is supposed to be an improvement of.
Tiffany said,
October 17, 2007 at 3:37 pm:
Hmmm..I ruffle when I hear the the vegans are compassionate and everyone else is cruel line.
Naomi said,
October 18, 2007 at 1:40 pm:
Weston Price traveled the world studying the healthiest cultures, and said non-categorically, “It is significant that I have as yet found no group that was building and maintaining good bodies exclusively on plant foods. A number of groups are endeavoring to do so with marked evidence of failure.” (from Nutrition and Physical Degeneration).
This is doubtless because meat contains many nutrients that are missing or in short supply in fruit and vegetables. Here’s a partial list: B-vitamins, vitamins A, D, K2, iron, zinc, taurine, carnitine, carnosine, long-chain omega fatty acids. I also wanted to respond to a comment made in post #17 about other cultures that don’t eat much meat; I assume she’s talking about Asian cultures. I want to point out that practically every sauce and soup in these cultures is made with fish sauce and/or broth, so some kind of meat product is consumed with every single meal.
mama k said,
October 19, 2007 at 8:32 am:
A very well written post. While I strive to eat less meat in my diet… mostly because I do not like the way conventional meat is processed, I have struggled with the though of going completely vegeterian or vegan.
I have always had this feeling that humans are by nature omnivores and it seems that your resources confirm that.
For me, it is more productive to focus my time and resources on consuming organic/free range animal products on a limited basis.
Kids Dish » Blog Archive » Vegetarian Carnival said,
October 22, 2007 at 7:07 am:
[...] this week’s edition Tiffany Washko writes a piece called Vegetarians Please Stop Trying To Convert Me… posted at Natural Family Living Blog. A former vegetarian, Tiffany is bothered by the tone of [...]
I Like It Raw Baby - Food That Is » Natural Family Living Blog said,
October 25, 2007 at 8:01 am:
[...] all started several weeks ago when I had some good conversations with readers after my post on vegetarianism and veganism that sparked so much controversy. It was suggested that maybe I might have felt different about my [...]
LaTara Ham-Ying said,
October 26, 2007 at 6:36 pm:
I have to say I am very saddened by what I am reading. I am a vegan. Not because of animal rights, or anything like that; but for other reasons. I am healthier as a result of going vegan.
Judging a person because they are or are not is not right. This is why I am so hesitant at times to share my journey, even though I have a vegan business. It is still very painful.
Being a vegan is just like being a meat eater. It is all about balance. The same vitamins that are in meat can be found in many fruits, vegetables, grains, and other items. Here is a good place to learn more http://library.thinkquest.org/20922/where_nutrients.htm
I am sorry that some of you have had a bad experience being vegetarian or vegan. But I do not think it is fair to knock it if you do not know all there is to know about it.
I never judge someone because of what they choose to eat. I do share, however, the fact that if you do choose to eat meat, make sure it is as organic as possible and is free range. I tell them same about dairy.
I do not follow PETA or any vegetarian or vegan societies that promote treating people wrong. I just don’t roll like that. I don’t advocate a lot of unnecessary mess.
I really do not know what more to say because I just did not think I would come across this here on this blog.
Pro-activity is key in all we do. Every man has a choice.
LaTara Ham-Ying’s last blog post..Vegan Family Living Podcast Show 8 - Vegan Snacks
Tiffany said,
October 26, 2007 at 7:03 pm:
Hi LaTara, I am not sure why you thought my post was judging vegetarians or vegans because that is not what it was meant to do. I have many vegan friends and I am just fine with their dietary decisions. This post was meant call out those that judge the meat eaters, including those that eat meat as ethically as possible…like myself. Meat eaters are constantly bashed by the veggie crowd for being uncompassionate and for being pseudo environmentalists. Just look at the comments on this post and the people who mention that vegans are “compassionate” as if we can miss the point that meat eaters are heartless meanies.
As I stated I can only go by my own experience with vegetarian eating and it worked out quite badly for me…I would never go that route again unless sit was all raw as well but even then it is not likely. What I did not mention was that I got mono while I was eating vegetarian because my immune system was so suppressed and I inadvertently passed it to a friend of mine who nearly died of spinal meningitis. It took a long time for my body to recover from the trauma I put it through. Maybe I was doing some things wrong but I think two years was a pretty good “try”.
That doesn’t mean I think there are no healthy vegans…I know that there are…I know several raw vegans that are VERY healthy. But even with them I get annoyed with the attitude toward meat eaters…even raw meat eaters. I don’t like being called uncompassionate, or a killer, or a fake environmentalist because I choose to eat animal products …that is what I was trying to get across with this post.
Sorry you were offended LaTara.
LaTara Ham-Ying said,
October 27, 2007 at 11:30 pm:
Thank you for the clarification Tiffany. I understand your issue with vegetarians and vegans who out meat eaters down. It happens to me even as a vegan because we eat honey. For me it is neither here nor there.
Thanks again for the clarification.
LaTara Ham-Ying’s last blog post..Vegan Family Living Podcast Show 8 - Vegan Snacks
Tiffany said,
October 28, 2007 at 9:38 am:
LaTara I read recently in a book from a raw vegan that she changed her mind about the honey issue after she met a very ethical bee keeper. He explained that were lots of very ethical bee keepers that go out of their way to potect their bees and make their populations thrive. They are actually helping with the larger problem of bee populations dying off. The bees keepers are providing them with everything they are struggling to find in the wild on their own. But if no one eats the honey than they can’t make a living and they have to give up…perhaps selling their colonies to someone who won’t care for them and only wants money…so using honey CAN be an excellent way to actually support bees and help them thrive if you are buying it from the right places.
The Virtues Of Vinegar : Elaine Vigneault said,
November 7, 2007 at 2:03 am:
[...] would help their cause. If anything it made me rethink my decision to eat there next week.” from Nature Moms via Veggie Chic and Kids [...]